Porutiu Daniela - SATYA
omsatyaom at yahoo.com
Tue Nov 6 01:20:02 CST 2007
some texts that sustain what I was trying to say:
VIVEKACUDAMANI seams to be appropriate for our topic:
Verset 218 :
There is a pitcher of water, and there is the reflection of the sun in the water. Seeing that reflection, the fool thinks that that is the sun. So, in the upadhis ( ego) the reflection of Atman is ignorance. The fool thinks that that is the Atman.
By giving up the reflection in the water, one sees the real sun in the sky. So, one should give up there three states- jagrat, svapna and susupti- and see that anvil-like Atman, which is the cause of all manifestations and is self effulgement.
220 and 221
Giving up this body, intellect and the reflection (out of text : ie :rock, piece of metal, river, whatever, I , world)of consciousness in the intellect , and resting in the cave of the heart, the seer- the Atman, indivisible consciousness, the manifester of all, separated from the manifested and unmanifested, ever existed, and beyond all, all-permeating, very minute, with neither inside nor outside , the One without the second- knowing HIM , the real Self of all, the individual becomes free from birth and death.
When different kinds of thoughts enter into the Atman , all things became one, just as what comes out of the earth is not separate from the earth, but earth itself. The earth ( clay) is real , the pitcher is imagination, existing in name only and not separate from earth(clay).
And now these versets are very important for our topic
Brahman alone is real, and whatever comes out from Brahman is real (what you underlined). The real cannot produce what is unreal. It is THAT. There is nothing except That ( that I tried to say and more look..) He that says there is something separate, his delusion has not yet vanished. He is as one speaking in his sleep.
The scripture ( Atharva Veda) says this world is Brahman. All is Brahman. What you impute to a thing (superimpose) is not separate from that to which you impute( the substratum). The basis of all is Brahman. Therefore, what you call the world is not the world, but Brahman
That I was trying to say forcing to the idea that is not true to see the world, you should see Brahman but not make it disappear in nothingness, as you said below, NO , JUST KNOWING THE NATURE OF BRAHMAN MAKE YOU SEE HIM IN ALL AROUND.
THIS IS WHAT IVE SAID.
And continuing my idea please read more:
He (the Lord) who knows the reality of things said, Im not in the elements, neither are the elements in Me. And this world is nothing but the composition of the elements. Therefore the world is not real.
If the world is real, let it be perceived when you are in deep sleep also.You can not comprehend anything then. Therefore, it is not. It is like a dream.
What appears can not be real
As in the mother of pearl, silver appears, so, in Atman appear everything. Though it is ignorance, THE BASIS IS ATMAN.
That I was trying to say.
Therefore, the Supreme Soul is alone real- One without a second, pure consciousness, without any blemish, quit, beginning less, endless, beyond all actions, always Blissfulness Itself.
Gaudapada/AgamaPrakarana/vrs 18 :
If the multiplicity were imagined, it would vanish. Such doctrine is merely for the purpose of instruction. When known, duality cease to exist.
And of course Vaitathya Prakarana verse 32 which is my favorite :
There is no dissolution, no birth, none in bondage and none aspiring for wisdom, no seeker of liberation and none liberated. This is the absolute Truth.
Plus Vaitathya Prakarana vrs 33 and 34:
They assert the knowledge free from imagination, birth less, not different from what is known. Brahman is that which is known, birth less, eternal. The birth less knows the birthless.
From the standpoint of the self the world does not exist; nor does it exist as independent, neither differentiated nor non-differentiated. This is what the wise knows
Furthermore in Alatashanti Prakarana verse 71
Agree, the world does not disappear, of course,
Is apparent therefore is not real; IS LIKE THE DREAM,
But each of us are on different level of realities as I said above and they are seeing based on their level of understanding.
kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: "Ramesh Krishnamurthy"
> Another interesting point emerges from the above
> example: while there
> can be no mithyA without satya, there can be no
> satya without mithyA
> either (in the sense that satya is perceived only
> through the lens of
> mithyA). For "pure" satya alone, one has to resort
> to ajAtivAda, in
> which there is no saMsAra, no mokSha, and certainly
> no mailing list!!
Shree Ramesh - praNAms . I know you are aware but I
wish to point out few aspects for consideration.
1. It is true mithya cannot exist without satya but
satya can exist without mithya - that is what the
definition of satya is trikaala abhaaditam. One is
dependent and the other is independent. What you are
saying is no vyavahaara can be done without mithya -
and that is true. Mithya is vyavahaara and sat is
defined as avyavahaaryam but yet puurNatvam is not
state of vyavahaara but understanding that all is in
me and I am in all- sarva bhuutastam aatmaanam sarva
bhuutanica aatmani or from bhakti point - yo maam
pasyati sarvatra, sarvatra mayi pasyati. This vision
is vision of the truth - jnaana kshakshu or wisdom
eye. Also I do not need mithya to see satya either. I
cannot see satya - it is not something to see but
something to recognize - what is recognized and who
recognizes? It is the recognition of the mind that
mithya is mithya and not satya and that which
underlying that mithya is satya, that I AM - that is
recognition of false as false and underlying that
false is satya or the reality that I AM.
> Yet another point from the same example: the world
> of objects does not
> disappear into nothingness on enlightenment. If that
> were the case,
> jiivanmukti would not be possible, as living
> requires interaction with
> the external world. With his senses, the jnAnI
> perceives objects like
> anybody else. But he recognizes that when the mind
> rushes to attach
> name & form to that which is perceived, it does so
> only within a frame
> of reference.
2. Perhaps the statement should be - senses perceive
in His presence - he is akarthaa abhoktaa. Here the
jnaanam is 'aham brahmaasmi' and brahavit brahma eva
bhavati - knower of Brahman becomes Brahman and
Brahman being infinite do not (or cannot do anything -
but things 'as though' appear to happen in Brahman)-
that is what 'leela vibhuuti' imply. - 'look at my
And as all frames of reference are
> arbitrary, the jnAnI
> does not cling to any. In that sense, the jnAnI sees
> brahman alone.
> This "non-clingingness" is the essence of manonAsha
> (destruction of
> the mind) & vAsanAkShaya (elimination of attachments
> & aversions)
3. It is like the statement of Krishna- they are all
in me but I am not in them - in my presence prakRiti
does all actions.
> But this does not prevent him from using any frame
> of reference. On
> the contrary, while we the unenlightened are
> constrained to use only
> this or that frame (due to our vAsanA-s), the jnAnI
> is utterly free to
> choose whatever frame he pleases. By being
> established in brahman, he
> can ride the waves of mAyA with utter abandon! That
> is why jiivanmukti
> is described as "freedom", "bliss" etc
> Hence one finds that some jnAnI-s stay in solitude,
> while others are
> very active in the world. It is their absolute
4. Concept of 'Freedom' - is only in relation to
finite. Recognition that I am Brahman itself is
freedom from all limitations - and that is what
absolute freedom, independent of reference frame that
you mentioned. Since he does not 'do' - anything -
whatever is done by prakRiti (BMI made up of panca
bhuutas) is dictated by 'loka kalyaaNam' - one can say
Iswara himself uses the readily available equipments
for the benefit of the 'relatives' depending on the
'prArabda karma' of the BMI - body-mind - intellect
equipments. Sometimes samaShTi karma dictates how
those equipments are used - when one is ready for that
kind of teacher, such a teacher is provided - say by
> Comments and brickbats welcome
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SATYAM JNANAM ANANTAM BRAHMA! "Brahman is Reality, Knowledge, Infinity!" Taittiriya Upanishad II.1.2
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