[Advaita-l] How shruti is antya pramANa in advaita vEdAnta??

[bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com]

praNAms Sri Siva Senani Nori prabhuji
Hare Krishna

I thought you had written the below mail directly to me.  Since now, you've
posted the mail to the list, I am also forwarding my reply to the list.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar


----- Forwarded by Bhaskar YR/BAN/INABB/ABB on 05/10/2007 01:45 PM -----
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                   
                05/09/2007        Bhaskar YR/BAN/INABB/ABB                                         
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                               To:       Siva Senani Nori <sivasenani at yahoo.com>                 
                               cc:                                                               
                               Subject:  Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: How shruti is antya pramANa in      
                                advaita vEdAnta??(Document link: Bhaskar YR)                     
                                                                                                 



praNAms Sri Siva Senani Nori prabhuji
Hare Krishna

SSN prabhuji :

Sri Bhaskar

praNAm.

Kindly pardon me I have never questioned the authority of scripture in
shankara vEdAnta.  My doubts are there with a genuine interest to know what
exactly does it mean when we say *shruti is the antya pramANa*....If I take
your words & say it is ONLY blind faith in scriptures just coz.

* Faith is belief that is not based on proof. If you are told something,
and will believe it after proving it then such a thing is called a
hypothesis. Or to paraphrase you, faith is by definition blind.

bhaskar :

Thanks for the clarification prabhuji...now tell me, whether shruti is
hypothesis or faith??  and also kindly clarify my doubt :what exactly does
it mean when we say *shruti is the antya pramANa*??  You said below : *The
Sruti is called antya pramANa precisely because no further "verification"
is required*  OK I agree with this..but now tell me shruti says tattvamasi
(thou art that).  You mean to say here we simply accept it without
verifying it further with our intuitive realization??

SSN prabhuji :

 it is our fore fathers collection of gems in their highest status.

* I guess speed-reading has its problems. I used the above phrase in a
context which condemns that; it does not state my belief.

bhaskar :

pardon me for misreading...Kindly clarify in simple language *on_what_basis
you consider shAstra as antya pramANa...you have said in your previous mail
:

// quote //

* FAITH * in Sruti - as opposed to courtesy or pride that our fore-fathers
worked out the system and as a mark of respect we grant that collection of
gems of wisdom the highest status - is essential to understand Sri
Sankara's teachings.
// unquote //

If I connect the first & last sentences of your above statement, it reads
as * FAITH * in Sruti is essential to understand Sri Sankara's teachings
...is it your stand prabhuji??

SSN prabhuji :

It leads to the conclusion that shAstra has to be believed to be an
authority just as we
put faith in the declarations of champions in that field..In other words,
that would imply the dependence of the scriptures on some other source of
right knowledge for its efficacy.  What does it mean??  if some Rishi
cautions us that there is a big giant on the other side of the country, the
truth of that statement either should have to be believed blindly or that
statement would have to be investigated by actual perception or through
some other means of knowledge

* In case of Apta-vAkya, we assume it is true, till we know better, but do
not go about verifying out of mis-trust.

bhaskar :

Kindly clarify when did I say we have to verify shruti vAkya-s out of
mis-trust??  I've been only telling vEdAntic intuitive realization should
go hand in hand with scriptural verdicts...

SSN prabhuji:

...If our case is former, then we are *blind
followers* of shruti, if our case is later, the vEdic declaration would
require subsequent verification by some other accepted means of right
knowledge!!!

* This is the crux of the difference. I guess you would attribute the above
stance to His Holiness Sri Satchidanenra Swami. *** SRUTI VAKYAS DO NOT
*N*E*E*D* VERIFICATION BY OTHER MEANS *** (it is a different matter that
they being the Truth are capable of being verified)

bhaskar :

No prabhuji I didnot mean that...may be coz. of my language constraints you
might have understood like that!!  I've been telling shrutyAdi & anubhavAdi
pramaNa-s required in brahma jignAsa & in dharma jignAsa only shAstra
suffice...It does not mean *after* reading & understanding  shruti we have
to go to some other place to do something else to realize its truth!! I am
afraid...that is not at all my stand...you might have seen my private mail
with regard to anubhava...this does not have anything to do with pratyakya
& anumAna pramANa-s & does not have dependence on pratyaksha pramANa.


SSN prabhuji :

; other means like anubhava are also available to understand / interpret
Sruti vakyas correctly with respect to Brahma-jij~nAsA, which is not the
case with dharmajij~nAsA. The mere availability of other means does not
make those means of understanding, more important than what is to be
understood.

In that case it is not an antya pramANa. As said earlier,
after hearing the truth in scriptures, there is some work still pending to
verify truth behind this declaration....

* The Sruti is called antya pramANa precisely because no further
"verification" is required.

bhaskar :

Then why shankara said shrutyAdi & anubhavAdi & precisely NOT ONLY shruti
but anubhavAdayaH ...


Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar