[Advaita-l] Grace of God

[prem d p]

namaste...
   
  dear sri siva senani, sri sadananda, sri dilip, sri srinivas,
   
  thank you for responding.
  
 
  sri sadananda wrote:
   
  About free will - I have free will until I am free from will - that is I am free from
  the notion of doership. Then the local perturbations as well as the global
  responses all happening naturally - by prakRiti ' prakRityeva ca karmaani kriya
  maanaani sarvasaH'
 
and who ever sees or understands this correctly alone understand that 'I am
  neither doer nor enjoyer' - free from any doing - free from 'will to do' too. That is
  of course is liberation.
  
 
  prem:
   
  thank you for reminding us that 'will' is 'will to do'.
   
  so,
  - mumukshutva should be seen as a progressive dissociation or distancing from
    action
  - thus it is progressive 'letting go' of doership
  - thus it is progressive realization that Self has neither the need nor whim for
    action
  - the moment it is fully realized that there is no association of Self, that very
    moment the word 'will' ceases to be, neither is their individual will nor God's
    Action
  - that is because when the individual will is completely sacrificed (yajna) at the
    altar of God's Will, 'tat tvam asi' is realized, and there is no one else.
   
  shankara points out, there is no karma which can work towards Realization. 
   
  the problem in the understanding of the idea of non-action or non-doership as
  the 'means' to liberation is that we think in terms of a 'will to non-action'. 
  this is because we think 'to act' is natural and 'to not act' requires will. 
  to act, indeed, is natural to phenomenal nature, but not to 'Self'. 
  thus 'to not act' is not to force prakriti into non-action (impossible of course) but
  to be non-attached to action.
   
  please comment.
   
   
  dilip wrote:
   
  .....the Mumukshatwa is the link between the phenomenon and the noumenon.
  The  impulse to be free is from the land of noumenon , manifesting in the 
  domain of phenomenality. The  explanation , the form ,  is later given by the 
  mind.
  
 
  prem:
   
  'noumenon' or 'thing in itself' as first proposed by Kant is a concept which 
  maintains the manifold mutiplicity of reality. as you of course know, vedantic
  position is different, we say that multiplicity is only the Name & Form and the
  so called 'noumenon' is un-differentiated Existence. We say, 'isavasyam idam
  sarvam' and lest we forget 'tat tvam asi' too (as sri sadananda and sri srinivas
  points out).
   
  (dilip, as for 'Name & Form' itself there has been lot of enlightening/stimulating
  discussion & papers in the list, if you look up the archives of last few months, 
  as 'bhava-rupa', 'abhava-rupa' etc.)
   
   
  dear list members, your comments requested.
  
 
  pranam.
   
  ...prem



 Send free SMS to your Friends on Mobile from your Yahoo! Messenger. Download Now! http://messenger.yahoo.com/download.php