vishy1962 at yahoo.com
Thu Jul 20 01:07:05 CDT 2006
I agree that you were quoting scriptures and I was not.
According to me all those and even Guru can serve as signposts showing us the right way, after choosing the path than its your own joureney and experience. You are a lonely traveller and you need to go alone. But keep refering to them as touchstone for your experiences.
So I just dropped all that I have read/ heard and keep contemplating on what I understood and draw my own inferences..and further carry on without sticking to any thing. Manytimes feel ultimate reality is reaching that no-mind state..without any sort of desires/fear/ attachments...may be nearer to " Shoonyatha' as Buddha said. I may be wrong, but feel ultimate point of Advaitha,ie, Mukthi also refers to that.
So rather looking into what Krishna said and vedavyasa said, I look into My innerself, which is indeed Krishna/shankara for anysort of clarifications.
Again , May be I am wrong and apologise for that...but
thats the way I go.
ramesh badisa <badisa66 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Self realisation/ salvation, there is no need to complicate things to
this level at all. Again without ref to any scriptures or quotes I wish
to put it inthis way
Badisa: Namaste. There are no complications here. All are sequence of steps for the final. I have already placed my arguments with the help of references from scriptures. Thus, what ever is said earlier, they are not my own answers. You havent made any comments on those references in your response. So, where is the question of complication here? As you know, in a debate, one has to quote the references from scriptures like Bhagawad Gita, Upanishads, Brahma Sutras etc. Then the discussions will be interesting. Otherwise, mere expression of opinions will not have much weight.
As quoted if jeevatma is different and going to merge with paramatma
aftrter death, than clearly there are two....where is advaita?
Badisa: Merging in paramatma is a fact whether we accept or not. Brahma Sutra 4.3.10 clearly says this. Lord Krishna also says many times in Gita in this regard. For example, please refer 9/28 sloka and then compare it with sri Shankaras commentary.
c is the combination of body/mind/intellect and ego.
(Again c is vereymuch part and parcel of C).c is transistery/ maya and
Identification with c is ignorance. The movement ignorance vanishes due
to right jnana, you realize that your true idntity is C , immedeatly
mind/intellect/ego combination dissapears and only body remains to reach
natural death. I see the person in this state is jeevan muktha.He,
than, neednt do anything/go anywhere as 'he' no longer exisits to identify
with that body
Badisa: Mind exists in two forms. One is sa-roop and the other is aa- roop. In case of Jeevan mukta, sa-roop is destroyed but the aa-roop is still present for him. This aa-roop will be destroyed at the time of death. You can verify these forms in Muktika up. 2.8 and Annapoorna up. 4.3. What ever the form the mind exists, it still comes under prakruti as per Gita 7/4 and 13/7. The bottom line is that a jeevan mukta still has mind. Although jeevan muktas soul does not go anywhere upon the fall of the physical body, but it will get merged in nirgun Brahman (please check Vagadilayadhikaranam in Brahma sutra, phala adhyaya). Also please refer in this regard Prasna Up. 6.5 for dissolving of all tatvas in nirgun Brahman. Therefore, what I am saying is that merging or attaining is a fact either for a jeevan mukta or liberated soul at Brahma Lok. This merging is called salvation/moksha, where there is only one (advaita) exists.
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