[Advaita-l] Re: Kundalini
badisa66 at yahoo.com
Thu Mar 3 08:20:38 CST 2005
Ø According to Upanishads, there are 6 chakras, present on the astral body of every person.
Jaldhar: Which Upanishads?
Badisa: The following Upanishads:
In these Upanishads, the existence of charkas is mentioned. These charkras are present on subtle body, not in the physical body. If they are present on the physical body, then, after death of the physical body of any person or sadhaka (unsuccessful), all charkas will also be destroyed. If the sadhaka is unsuccessful in reaching the crown of the head (the highest chakra) for realization before his death, then his soul will take birth again in the world, and the sadhaka continues his sadhana from where he had left his sadhana in his previous life. It means, that there is some thing that is carried from previous life to next life (good or bad tendencies). Since, the physical body will perish after death, obviously, the tendencies have to exist on subtle body, which is carried to next life. On the same lines, the existence of charkas on subtle body needs to be understood.
Ø It is said that no salvation is possible without awakening of kundalini.
Badisa: In Yogashikaopanishad, 1.21., it is said that sushumna is the way for salvation. That means, if kundalini is not passed through the sushumna nadi to reach the crown of the head, then there is no salvation.
Jaldhar: 7chakras and 7 lokas are two different representations of the same thing.
Badisa: In the above four upanishds, the term 'satchakras' is mentioned, meaning that there are 6 chakras, not 7. The crown of the head is not counted as a chakra. What are these 7 lokas that you have mentioned in your answer? Are you saying that these 7 lokas are those lokas, through which the qualified soul passes through and then finally reaches Brahma Lok (BL), as described in 8/24 of Gita or Upanishads? If you say yes, then there are not 7 lokas described either in Ch. Up. Or Br. Up. For example, in Ch. Up. 4.15.5, there are 9 lokas, not 7, described (the qualified soul, after the death of the physical body passes through archies, day light, shukla paksha (bright fort night of the moon), uttarayan, god of year, sun, moon, vidyuth and finally, BL). The same path with 9 lokas is again confirmed in the same Upanishad (Ch. Up) at 5.10.2. Similarly, in Br. Up. 6.2.15, there are 9 lokas described. But in Kaushitaki Brahmana Up. 1.3, there are 7 lokas described. Since Ch. Up, Br. Up
and Kau. Up are talking about the same path, it is true that there are more than 8 lokas, not 7 lokas, through which the qualified soul passes through and reaches finally reaches and halts at BL. In Kau. Up. Some lokas are omitted, and this does not mean that there are only 7 lokas through which the qualified soul passes through. This type of ommission of lokas is also found in Gita 8/24 path, where only 5 lokas are mentioned. It does not mean that there are only 5 lokas. The reason for this ommision in Gita may be based on the fact that number of lokas is not important to reveal to Arjun. Because that was not the primary aim of Lord Krishna at that point of time. The question I would like to ask you here is what are the 7 lokas you are talking about? And how come these 6 charkas, [as mentioned in Upanishads] would represent the same thing of 8 lokas [as described in Upanishads or 7 lokas, as per understanding]? Can you give any reference from Upanishads, or Gita or Brahma Sutras
to show that 7 chakras and 7 lokas represent the same thing?
In my opinion, they have to be different. Because, the journey of the qualified soul on 8/24 path of Gita or the path described in Ch. Up. Or Br. Up etc., starts after the death of physical body of the sadhaka. Once on this path of 8/24 of Gita, the qualified soul never comes back to the world to take birth. Instead, it passes through different lokas and finally reaches to Brahma Lok (BL) with the guidance of amanav purush. This soul, called liberated soul, will stay at BL till the time of pralaya, and then it merges in divine. Now, as per your understanding, if 7 lokas (for a moment we assume here that there are 7 lokas, based on your understanding) represent 7 chakras (for a moment we assume that there are 7 chakras) on the subtle body, then failure on the part of sadhaka to reach the highest chakra (it should be the 7th chakra crown of the head, as per your understanding) before death will make the soul of this sadhaka to take another birth. If 7 lokas and 7 chakras represent
the same, then same thing should happen in both cases. Right? But, in one case, the qualified soul moves to BL, and in the other case, the soul takes the birth, indicating that both cannot be the representation of one. Here, can you say that 7 lokas represent the 7 chakras only for a successful sadhaka, where he successfully reaches the 7th chakra before death? No. Because, the soul of this successful sadhaka, [who reached the crown of the head and thus experienced the final truth when living], will not go to any lokas. Then what will happen to this soul after physical death of the sadhka? It merges immediately in divine (which is called immediate salvation). On the other hand, the liberated soul, waiting at BL, will get the same merging at the time of pralaya.
If your understanding that 7 chakras represent 7 lokas is correct, then can you tell who is the equivalent person on 7 chakras to guide the soul to BL? In case of 8/24 following soul, amanav purush comes from BL, and guides the soul to BL. But, in case of 7 chakras, where is such amanav purush coming from and where he will lead it to? To BL? It cannot be. Because, all charkas are present on the subtle body of the sadhaka, and if this sadhaka is successful in reaching the crown of the head, then he will achieve immediate salvation. On the other hand, if he is unsuccessful, then he will be born again in the world. Then in that case, where is the question of amanav purush in the picture or his guiding to BL? Can you explain?
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