[Advaita-l] An adhyAsa challenge

bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com
Tue Jun 17 04:34:32 CDT 2003

Dear Bhaskar jI,
>  praNAm prabhuji
>  Hare Krishna

No  No.   you are reading it in piece-meal.

>  may be prabhuji, it is coz. of your piece meal info :-). I'll tell you
why.  On 8th May 2003 in Advaitin List under the subject heading *jnAna &
bhakti* you wrote your understanding of mukti according to dvaita
perspective.  Here it is :

This is my understanding of mukti or mOksha from a dvaitin's point of view.

Realization or mOksha is attaining Parabrahman or reaching Parabrahman's
These are two expressions of the same concept as there is no difference
between Parabrahman and His Abode. Both expressions are used in
Geetha/upanishats -
"pootAha mad-bhAvam AgatAha"  and "mAm eva Eshyasi",
"param jyOtirupasampadya svEna roopEna abhinishpadyatE" -- chAndOgya
"puNya pApE vidhooya niranjanaha paramam sAmyam upaiti divyam",
"yad gatvA na nivartantE tad dhAma paramam mama",  "nirvairaha yah sa
mAmEti pAndava",
"yAnti brahma sanAtanam",  etc etc.

>From the point of view of a Dvaitin, what should happen to that soul after
*ultimate realization* is entirely upto the Creator who put that soul in
bondage to beginwith.  Just as we have to accept 'what is given' while in
bondage, a body of a dog or of a human being,  a Dvaitin has no problem
accepting what is given after *ultimate realization*.

>  Now you tell me prabhuji where did you mention the eternal gradation of
jIvAtma, andah tamas etc.etc.  Sofar we have been talking jIvAtma &
paramAtma,  Now, suddenly you are coming out with new set of theories which
were clearly absent from your previous mails.  Hence my confusion prabhuji.

Three kinds of jeevas - sattva, rajas,  tamas -   'end' accordingly.

>  First of all question here needs to be answered is whether there is
separate a jIva apart from Atman, then the gradation comes into picture.
When the concept of separate jIva itself not clear from shrutis, how can we
grade them *eternally* as mOksha yOgya souls etc. prabhuji??

U-rdhvam-ga-ccha-nti   sa-ttva-sthA
ma-dhyaE  ti-SHTHa-nti  rA-ja-sAH |
a-dhO  ga-ccha-nti  tA-ma-sAH ||  14.18

>  Please see the very next two verses 14.19 : nAnyam guNebhyaH
kartAraM......madbhAvaM sOdhigachati!!  & 14.20 : gunAnEtAnatItya treen!
dEhI dEhasamudbhavAn......mukto-amrutamaShnute.  Kindly comtemplate on the
meaning of *madbhAvam sOdhigachati*  & gunAnEtAnatItya treen etc. etc.
where in bhagavan emphasises on triguNAthIta jnAna.

It is only sattika-jeevas that will eventually have their 'end' or laya in
Once they reach Him,  there is no returning back to this world again.
"yad gatvA na nivartante taddhAma paramam mama"  - geetha. 15.6

>  You missed the first line here prabhuji, na tadbhAsayatE sUryO! na
ShaShAnkO na pAvakaH.  So, Atman will be there with self-effulgence
(sva-Atma prakASha) that is the real state (parandhAma) of our Atman.
Otherwise there will be no difference between prakAshahIna andah tamas &
ever shining parandhAma is it not prabhuji??

The tAmasika-jeevas will have their 'end' or laya in Andah-tamas.
"MAm-aprApyaiva kaunteya tato yanty adhamAm gatim"  - 16.20

>  There is a discussion among learned scholars of advaita-L list & dvaita
scholars on this topic *andah-tamas* just 2 months back.  Kindly check the

The rajasika-jeevas will have their 'end or laya in  samsAra itself  or in
other words,  they are in permanent   birth/death circulation for ever.

>  So, prabhuji there is no chance of emancipation for rajasika & tamasika
jeevas since they are graded *eternally* / for ever.  correct prabhuji??

In *praLaya"  everything is taken back by Parabrahman,  it does not mean
everyone gets mOksha in *praLaya*.     Only those who have attained
mOksha,  are not circulated in the next *Creation*,   the rest of them will

>  But prabhuji, as you said above, rajasika jIvas are permanent in the
cycle of birth & death, how come they get mOksha-yOgya jIvahood when they
are permanently graded as rajasika jIvas. Just an inquisitive query

In either *praLaya* or in *mOksha*,   the jIvAtman will stay as jIvAtman
So,  there is no process of merging jIvAtman in paramAtman at any time.
In mOksha,  jIvAtman is in constant enjoyment of his svaroopa-Ananda,
in the sAnidhya of ParamAtman.

I hope it is clearer.

>  Sorry prabhuji, still not clear.  *Eternal gradation* not sinking in my

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

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