[Advaita-l] Causal Body

Jay Nelamangala jay at r-c-i.com
Wed Jun 11 17:08:34 CDT 2003

Sri SadAnanda,

> Yes the question is good but the answer is unclear.
I will try to clarify.

> When saakshee illumines the knowledge - is it saakshee's knowledge or
> the knowledge of the mind.  When does the saakshee knowledge comes into
> picture when the knowledge through the senses and mind occurs.  Who is
> the owner of this knowledge at this stage?

Knowledge of what?  if it is knowledge of external objects then it is
knowledge of mind only  that sAkshii illumines.

>When does the saakshee knowledge comes into
> picture when the knowledge through the senses and mind occurs.  Who is
> the owner of this knowledge at this stage?

Always.  When the sense-organ-mind generates knowledge,
the knowledge is grasped by sAkshI along with its truth,  under normal
circumstances.   When the mind has doubts about the knowledge,
the sAkshi-D only grasps knowledge and not its truth - for lack of
consistency and successfulness.

> > Manas is jada,  inert.  The knowledge it produces
> > (  vritti-jnAna) is also jada.
> > Neither is self-evident.  Both are illumined by sAkshI-D.
> Good - Without saakshee - no knowledge is illumined - prama or bhrama,
> right Jay?
Without sAkshii means that person is dead.   So your question does
not arise.

> Jay - what do you mean perception by Saaskhee. Just illumination or
> saakshee perceies the knowledge, separate from the defective mind and
> intellect - How does it perceive? Why did it not perceive correct
> knowledge to begine with, independent of the defective mind and
> indriya-s?

Two kinds of knowledge - vritti and svaroopa.

vritti - produced by manas and sense organs
svaroopa - produced by sAkshi.

vritti type of knowledge is apprehended by sAkshI and sAkshI is
self luminous.

If the conditions are defective,  mind produces doubtful knowledge of
external objects.  sAkshI-D perceives that knowledge only but not its
truth.   When the mind has no doubts,  sAkshI-D perceives knowledge
along with its truth.  Thus,  sAkshI-D always perceives true knowledge.

> Do you have two knowledge(s) one by indriya-s and mind and
> one by saakshee-D? Where and how does the second knowledge takes place?.
> Why unnecessorily I have to get into trouble and why not saakshee take
> over all my affairs and make me gain true knowledge all the time?
No.  There is only one knowledge.  Second question does not arise at all.
Feed it only with  knowledge that is consistent with other pramANaas.
Don't feed it with knowledge that is inconsistent with experience and
that is internally inconsistent.
Then, why not?.

If all your life,  you have been taught that "rope is really poisonous and
it bites"
then although,  your sAkshee-D  helps you with the truth of knowledge in
snake-rope confusion,  that it is only a rope,  but still  you won't pick up
the rope.
Your sAkshI-D is not going to make you pick up the rope.  But,  if you had
bothered to go with pramANas and not  with abhimAna that "rope is
then you would have rejected that idea soon after it was taught to you.

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