jay at r-c-i.com
Fri Jun 6 10:20:42 CDT 2003
So when I lift a 10-lb bag of rice, according to you what
am I lifting?
Am I lifting the substance 'rice' ? or am I lifting just the
attribute called 10-lbs?
In my school, the answer is pretty simple. We are lifting
the dravya rice which has the savishEsha-abhEda attribute
What does advaita say, that I am lifiting.?. You have been
only asking us questions. I am still waiting on how you
distinguish between right and wrong knowledge of advaita,
if you think you don't need sAkshee-D?.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kuntimaddi sadananda" <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
To: <ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] vishEsha
> Jay - I have explined clearly in response to KrishaNa's post.
> Hari OM!
> --- Jay Nelamangala <jay at r-c-i.com> wrote:
> > > process - eyes see the form and color, right - therefore for form
> > and
> > > color eyes are the only pramaaNa - for sound, the ears and like wise
> > > each of the senses have their specific fields. But form and color
> > are
> > > only attributes and not the substantive. Each sense can only sense
> > the
> > > qualities but not substantive. 'Which reveals 'this' my fried. Now
> > tell
> > Why did you ignore "vishEsha" while formulating your question?
> > Your question is : is dravyatva a guNa? or not?.
> > What indriyas can sense is only guNas, then how can you have the
> > knowledge of the dravya. That is your question.
> > The answer is that guNas are identical with the substance in the
> > sense that they can not be seperated. The two are different in
> > the following sense:
> > When you hold a white towel in your hand, you are holding the
> > substantive in your hand. It is as simple as that. You can not
> > hold
> > towel in your left hand and its whiteness in your right hand.
> > The word "towel" stands for a substance. The word "whiteness" stands
> > for an attribute. The words towel and whiteness are not synonymous.
> > If one hears the word towel, one does not have the idea of whiteness.
> > If one hears whiteness, one does not have the idea of towel.
> > The towel serves a definite purpose, which whiteness does not.
> > Whiteness serves a different purpose. If I just say "bring a towel"
> > one need not bring me white towel. The expression "towel is not
> > towel"
> > involves self-contradiction. But the expression "cloth is not white"
> > is
> > quite
> > correct. A blind man can recognize a cloth, but he can not the
> > whiteness.
> > It is possible to spot out a towel in darkness, but not its colour.
> > Darkness affects the whiteness and not the cloth.
> > These experiences or usages point to the difference between a cloth
> > and
> > its whiteness. None of them is an illusion. They are as true as
> > the
> > experience that tells us that cloth and its whiteness are identical.
> > So we can not deny any one set of experiences in the interest of the
> > other.
> > We have only to draw the implication of both of them with a view to
> > removing the apparent contradiction between them.
> > Thus the towel and its whiteness are given in one sense as identical
> > and
> > in the other as different. This peculiarity is called "vishEsha".
> > So, we may conclude that there is the idea of different properties
> > with
> > reference to the same thing owning to the presence of vishEsha in it.
> > So, the relation between a substance and its properties is that of
> > identity.
> > But this identity admits of the idea of difference. The reason for
> > this
> > is the presence of vishEsha in the thing. From this point of view, we
> > may characterize the identity as the identity conditioned by vishEsha.
> > We call it "savishEsha-abhEda". It is simply an expression of the
> > idea that a substance is a unity in its diversity, in so far as it
> > exists.
> > Even the diversity in it is the expression of its unity.
> > So when I put a towel on my hand, my sensory organs generate
> > the knowledge of guNas, and because of savishEsha-abhEda
> > we get the knowledge of the substance towel.
> > I hope I have answered your question.
> > If you want to know the physical process of
> > indriyArtha-sannikarsha between the object-senseorgan-mind,
> > let me know.
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