Jaldhar H. Vyas jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM
Fri Sep 6 12:26:08 CDT 2002

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, yogafarm wrote:

> Namaste, Jagannathji & group -- thank you for the enlightening remarks.
> I, too, always found it curious that Shankarachryaji was so deeply
> involved in religious rituals.

The opposition in Advaita Vedanta is between karma and jnana.  Karma is
only sloppily translated as "religious rituals."  It means actions--all
types of intentful action.  Anyone who lives in this world claiming not to
be doing karma is a liar.  Anyone who shirks their duty to God is not
enlightened just lazy.

> In our Neti Yoga classes,


> we focused on the "accidental samadhi"
> experience (our so-called "no-mind experience") as our pathway to
> Enlightenment.  This is an experience which everyone has had -- bouts of
> "lost time" which, for most people, prove disturbing or perplexing;

I'd say.  If I started experienceing bouts of lost time I'd run for the
nearest neurologist.

> but
> which, if understood for what they are, can lead to immediate
> Enlightenment.

What are they.  Please define what you mean by enlightenment?  I suspect
you mean something other than what Advaitins mean.

> It is my contention that ANY period of "lost time" or "involuntary
> samadhi" can have the same effect as years of meditation -- in terms of
> its power to bring understanding of one's Divine Core of Pure
> Consciousness (Brahman, Atman).

So are you suggesting ones inner core is nothingness?  That's not the
Advaita Vedanta view. On th contrary pure consciousness requires
heightened awareness not a coma-like state.

> Even if a merely curious seeker has a teacher or guru who understands
> the meaning of this universal experience, it is simply a matter of
> explaining it to the student.  Then Enlightenment -- though not
> necessarily "liberation" -- is immediately achieved.

Advaita Vedanta is only interested in liberation (mukti.) Mukti cannot be
given by anyone or anything.

> That bout of "lost time" can occur via a "noble" means -- e.g., dharana
> > dhyana > samadhi -- or by a very mundane route ... such as
> intoxication, hypnosis, coma, rapture, driving for too many hours or,
> possibly, even UFO abduction.
> But the result of this involuntary samadhi is the same as for the
> intentional variety: The brief but undeniable loss of mind / maya.

Yes but what good is that loss if you don't know it?

>  Loss of ego / ahamkara.

As ahamkara requires consciousness I can see why it be lost when

> Merging with Oneness.

Whoa hold on a minute.  How did you suddenly get here?

> Tat twam asi.

You are that requires making a positive connection between "you" and
"that."  The methods for doing that are the same (perception, logic,
scriptural testimony etc.) as for any other cognition.  It is not a
connection you can make while unconscious.

> Indeed, infants appear to be in this "no-mind state" for many hours of
> each day, as do setting hens, etc.  The difference between them, and the
> Enlightened One, is merely that of knowledge and understanding of the
> experience.

I don't know about this.  My daughter is nine months old now and I can't
say there has been one moment when she has been in a "no-mind" state.  Her
mind is untrained but she has been craving experience and trying to
understand it from her first waking moment.  You are right the difference
between her and any grownup is knowledge.  But lack of knowledge doesn't
imply not having a mind.

Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at>
It's a girl! See the pictures -

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