One simple question (Anybody ?)
S. V. Subrahmanian
svs_shankara at HOTMAIL.COM
Fri Jul 21 23:31:17 CDT 2000
Shri Raviji wrote:
At the dawn of knowledge, individuality of the person is no more there.
iishwara has to throw away his records of sanchita karma and aagami
karma. But the prarabdha has begun to act. So SHE who is the
karmaphalapradaa is in a fix. It like an arrow which sent aiming at a
tiger, if suddenly the tiger becomes a cow will it stop? So the
prArabdha has to go on.
I have read your response and the earlier ones by others too. Shri Vidyaji
says it is only an explanation for the physical presence of the Master. But
as I said in my original mail, when you wake up from the dream, where is
question of continuing the dream. I also like the example Shri Ramana
Maharshi has given and which you have quoted.
Also, this prArabda stuff works only for Gurus who themselves did sAdhanA
and attained moksha. What about nityasiddhas and above all avatArs, they
are born with nil prArabda !!! There has to be a reason other than prArabda
for avatArs have no prArabda and yet they are the greatest Teachers of
mankind. No one would argue that Krishna was not a jnAni. Yet without
prArabda he acted (he explains in the gIta, but that hinges on compassion)
Shri Vidyaji says the only reason is compassion. Compassion implies
duality, isn't it ? What he says has been said by many other Masters, so I
am sure there is validity in it, just that I am not able to appreciate it.
Just for info: Other examples given for the continuance of the Guru to
teach even after enlightenment are:
1. Like roasted seeds that even though maintain their form can never
germinate. Likewise a Guru after enlightenment even though he may perform
actions, is not affected by it.
2. Like a burnt rope, that maintains its shape of a rope, but the rope is
really not there. The ashes just form the shape of a rope which will go
away with a gentle breeze.
3. They "assume" the semblance of an ego, to continue service to the world.
According to Shri Ramakrishna, Shankara "asssumed" the ego of knowledge,
Buddha "assumed" the ego of compassion inorder to live. For if they did not
do it, their bodies would have perished. They have to hold on to something
at the annamaya level else, there cannot be any way they can continue to
exist (physically). Only this they do it consciously and hence do not get
caught in the samsara.
Shri Raviji wrote:
There is a body, but no ego to identify it with
it. Who then will suffer/enjoy the prArabdha? So God decides let me
occupy this body and go through that. And SHE uses it to the welfare of
all. This is body is indeed a sacred temple for God to use, as it was
occupied by one who just transcended the duality. So it is God who
acts through the body and teaches till the prArabha lasts. This is why
a jnAni is equal to God. Because, only God is there. The individual who
was earlier identifying himself with the body has ceased to be.
That is true even of a samsari. It is God who acts through a wicked villain
too. The only difference between a jnAni and a sinner is that the jnAni
does not interfere with the will of God with his ego, whereas the sinner
obstructs the expression of Divinity by "superimposing" his ego over it and
hence commits blunders.
In all the discussion the answer seems to be as to HOW a Guru continues
teaching and not WHY a Guru continues teaching. Smt. Lataji's explanation
seems a little satisfactory here. From the Guru's perspective the samsara
has ended and he is really not teaching anymore. The Guru exists from the
shisya's perspective only. If each individual jiva can be considered a
center of the Universe with infinite centers (as it were), one of them just
One of the waves merged in the sea (Guru), the rest have to follow
(shishyas). I guess it will be really clear only when we get there !!!
My best wishes to all of us.
S. V. Subrahmanian.
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