sada at ANVIL.NRL.NAVY.MIL
Mon Aug 25 07:19:06 CDT 1997
>Sada there are a few things you mentioned I am afraid I have to dispute.
>All the people you mentioned are fiction. We just make ourselves to believe
>that they existed. Can You mention one single human present or recent past
>who is a samsari. I guess most people with comeup with this man in Bombay,
> Nisargadda or something like that. All he said is repetition of Ramana and
Nagy, have you read the book - "I am that" - Read or rather study that
book By Nisargadatta Maharaj before you can pass any judgments.
Is it not good that the ideas or concepts are repetition of Ramana and
Shankara - If they are different I will have a bigger problem! Truth being
the same, it does not matter who that realized soul is, he/she has to say
the same thing in words understandable to the listeners. In fact that is
the solid test.
Now, suppose I came up with some names of married people who have realized.
Are you going to agree with me or disagree with me. Either way it is my
opinion against yours - then how does that matter. You may come up with
some names of celibates who have realized. But I have to agree with your
judgments. If every body votes that yes he is realized - is that a test.
Nagy in the ultimate analysis, how does it help me if I know some sanyaasin
or gRihasta has realized or not. What counts ultimately is where I am with
respect to realization. Everything else is meaningless to me. Does Ramana
or Nisargadatta Maharaj cares if someone else thinks they have realized or
not. For them there may not be someone else even to count.
>I agree one need not be a sanyasi but that ashram is more conducive to attain
>Gnanam faster. For samsari on the otherhand it is a uphill battle.
Up hill battle for everybody who are embodied. Without maanasika
sanyaasa, taking external sanyaasa will be harmful. Recently one UDipi
sanyasin piiThaadhipati left the matt marrying a young girl. In Udipi
matts they have a practice to give baala sanyaasa. If the individual does
not have the maturity of the maanasika sanyaasa, it will be a prison for
him. I commend that swami who came out of his prison. Recently my wife
went and saw both the swami and the his new bride in their new apartment.
He is a very very good carnatic music singer. This does not mean all
swamies are like that. There are great souls too who have taken up the
sanyaasa with clear understanding.
>Most important of all is Devi's grace. If Devi's grace falls on one, nothing
Yes. That is exactly what Krishna says:
daiveemeshhaa guna mayi mama maayaa duratyaya|
maamevaye prapadyante maayaametam tarantite||
Check the sloka to make sure I did not make mistake in trasliteration.
maaya is of divine origin and is difficult to overcome
only by surrendering to Me one can cross this maayaa.
> Sanyasi or samsari does not
>matter they are different occupations.
True. But Devi being full of compassion, her grace is always there. We
need to tap that grace. We can tap only if we have pure mind - mind empty
of all notions - Purification of the mind is what we need to do as saadhana
then grace of Devi or Krishna will flood our mind. - emptying part we need
to do - filling part the Lord does - that is the grace . With or with out
the sanyaasee robes, or with or with out any robes - these do not matter -
emptying (mental) is what is needed. Since emptying itself involves
nayaasa - sanyaasa helps.
I think there is an equivalent statement in Bible:
" empty thy self - I shall fill thee"
Exactly the same meaning
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Washington D.C. 20375
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