ahudli at SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU
Fri Jun 14 11:58:34 CDT 1996
On Thu, 13 Jun 1996, Giri wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jun 1996, anand hudli wrote:
> > advaita is based on the upanishhads as Shankara himself affirms in
> > his works. The method of Vedanta(upanishads) is what is called
> > adhyaaropa-apavaada-vaada. adhyaaropa means superimposition of
> > unreal attributes on the Brahman, and apavaada means the sublation
> > of such superimpositions. When all superimpositions are sublated
> > what remains is Brahman.
> > Of course, all this talk of procedures, going, coming, etc. is
> > meaningless once we reach the nondual state.
> But not until then !! A Boy Scout may talk like a war general
> using the information he listened when the military personnel are talking.
> A young boy practicising to learn violin may try to get out of practice
> sessions by quoting a virtuoso and say 'What I play is inspired, there is
> no involvement of the mind.' A teacher will listen to these people
> patiently and pat them on their back and say 'You don't know what you are
> saying now. You are not a virtuoso, not yet. After you become one, your
> words will make enough sense to you.' The above example is paraphrased
> from Trevor Leggett's book on bhagvad gita.
I agree. One has to be a jiivanmukta to make statements such as
the one I made above and really know the significance of the statement.
I am no jiivanmukta (or jnaani) and I can even find many people who will
testify to that effect. :-) For one thing, I am not leading a life of
renunciation which is so essential, as per Shankara. See for example,
his commentary on Mundaka Upanishad 3.2.4.
What I actually meant in my earlier message is that from point of view
of a Brahman-realized person all words are meaningless. The upanishad
says that words do not reach It (Brahman).
Now the question is: Should a non-jiivanmukta talk like a jiivanmukta
or not? I will try to answer this question and I request others to
say what they feel.
Take your example of the novice aspiring to be a great violinist. The
novice talks like the virtuoso. If that makes the novice feel good,
strengthens his enthusiasm to learn music, and makes him work harder
towards his goal, there is no problem. Let him talk like a virtuoso.
But if talking like an expert affects him negatively such as
making him self-conceited, making him
look down upon others like him, making him complacent and lazy in
working towards his goal, then there is a problem.
> Though theoretically all of us may be jnanis, how many of us here
> can postively say they are already dead both in mind and body (as
> Nisargadatta used to say) and they function all the time without the
> influence of ego ? Atleast Rama (not Lord Rama, but rbalasub at purdue) has
> publicly claimed that he was not a jnani ;-)
> Though Bhagvan Ramana says 'Only the thought I am not a jnani
> prevents you from being a jnani,' he does not speak against the
> practice of meditation etc.
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